00:00:00 Speaker 1
This episode of The Energy Pipeline is sponsored by Caterpillar Oil & Gas. Since the 1930s, Caterpillar has manufactured engines for drilling, production, well service, and gas compression. With more than 2,100 dealer locations worldwide, Caterpillar offers customers a dedicated support team to assist with their premier power solutions.

00:00:26 Speaker 2
The Energy Pipeline is your lifeline to all things oil and gas, to drill down deep into the issues impacting our industry. From the frac site to the future of sustainability, hear more about industry issues, tools, and resources to streamline and modernize the future of oil and gas. Welcome to The Energy Pipeline.

00:00:49 KC Yost
Hello, everyone, and welcome to this episode of The Energy Pipeline Podcast. Today, our topic is the relationship between Lamprell Energy, a leading provider of contracting services in the energy industry, and Al-Bahar, the local United Arab Emirates Caterpillar dealer. We're fortunate to have Zadok van Winden, Director of Projects at Lamprell, as our guest. So welcome to The Energy Pipeline Podcast, Zadok.

00:01:15 Zadok van Winden
Hi, KC. Yeah, thank you for having me. Glad to be here. Looking forward to the conversation.

00:01:21 KC Yost
Excellent, excellent. Well, we are as well. So can you take a few minutes to share a bit of your background with our listeners?

00:01:27 Zadok van Winden
Yeah, okay. So I'm from Tasmania, Australia. I studied engineering at Australian Maritime College. It's actually a university really in Tasmania. Shortly after that, I moved over to Dubai, United Arab Emirates, as a... I went to Dubai Drydocks, which is a shipyard here. I spent the first, say, four years of my career working there, two years in ship repair, two years in the new building. I moved from there in 2007 to a company called MIS, Maritime Industrial Services, which was basically building jackup rigs for the prospective market at the time. They were quite successful with that. And then later in 2011, the company that I'm with now, Lamprell Energy, acquired MIS and that I've been with them ever since. So doing a diverse range, working on a diverse range of energy projects, oil and gas, renewables, all sorts of different things. So I live here with my, I've been here 20 years now, wife, two kids. Unfortunately, my kids have got British accents going to British schools here, but we are all Australian

00:02:38 KC Yost
Excellent, excellent, excellent. So how about a little bit of a background and overview of Lamprell Energy and its core areas of operation, especially within the UAE?

00:02:50 Zadok van Winden
Yeah, okay. Lamprell was set up in 1976. It was founded as a family company by a guy called Steve Lamprell, and it was predominantly a fabrication company, just in small fabrication for many years. And towards the back end of the '80s, it started foray into the rig refurbishment market as they successfully completed a jackup accommodation vessel. And then across the'90s, it really started to boom in terms of rig refurbishment and became a one-stop shop and known for delivering safety, quality, and on schedule, always on time, very reliable. And this was in Sharjah, Port Khalid, which is a port. We had offices in there and we brought our own team and our own experts, and the company build up from there, really made a name for ourselves doing that. Transitions sort of grew from there, from that base. In early 2000s, we opened up a facility in Jebel Ali, which is in Dubai, actually in the Port of Jebel Ali. And there, that was really opened on the basis or predicated on the fact that there was a large FSO and FPSO conversion market. So Dubai Drydocks would do the hulls, and Lamprell did the top side. So that went on form I'd say seven, eight, nine, ten years for some really big contractors in the market, like Saipem and others. And their yards continued even after that boom. They built jackup wind farm installation vessels. We built a lot of other oil and gas structures there as well. And in 2007, while the Greek refurbishment market was still going on and very much alive, Lamprell won a contract to build two jackup drilling rigs, the LeTourneau 116Es. And that was a big success. Took two, three years to build. And on the back of that and the market conditions at the time, Lamprell built Hamriyah, which is the facility that I'm actually sitting in now. So Hamriyah is in a free zone in Sharjah, a bit up the road from Port Khalid. And we've got now, we're 540, 000 square meters here. And it was originally built as a new-build facility and aimed at the jackup market, the jackup drilling rig market. So we're basically delivering our 30th jackup drilling rig at the moment, but across the years, we've really diversified our portfolio with strong into oil and gas. Over the last five, six years, we've diversified into renewables markets. We do the offshore wind energy foundations. So we build them here, either jackets or monopile transition pieces. We've done the wind farm jackup installation vessels, either for installation or maintenance. And we're actually also a partner or member of the LTA, the Long-Term Agreement with Aramco for fabricating their EPCI offshore projects. So we have about... We flex our staffing, just depending on the amount of work that we have. We have about 4 or 5, 000 workforce now, 40 different nationalities. So it's a real melting pot, a really, really great company. And when we fill up all of our facilities, we have in the past been up to 13, 14, 15, 000 people at the peak. So yeah, it's an exciting place to be at Lamprell. We were in the stock market in 2008. We listed on the London Stock Exchange, and until last year, we were actually bought by a private investor, a Saudi investor, and it's a fantastic move really for everybody. Even Lamprell, involved with Lamprell, he has big vision and it's really the perfect storm where the time and energy needs are exploding. We've got oil and gas in Saudi and the access to a market that wants to spend on projects. And we've got the renewables market driven in the UK, Europe and the US, which is really, really ramping up. So we're positioned really well here in the Middle East. We've got the owner with huge vision and a really active board and very proactive senior management, and it's a good place to be.

00:07:04 KC Yost
That's amazing. That's amazing. So I graduated college in 1976, and I've had my peak and I'm on the back nine, if you will, easing into retirement. And you guys are like the proverbial hockey stick, started out and now you're blowing through the roof and getting into all sorts of businesses. It sounds very exciting that you guys have grown the way you have. Very impressive, very impressive. So with all of this growth, you mentioned some of the areas that you're involved with. Can you talk about some key projects or collaborations that have contributed to your reputation in the offshore drilling industry specifically?

00:07:46 Zadok van Winden
Yeah, so we've covered a broad range of projects, but specifically in the offshore drilling industry. So we have delivered, as I mentioned, 30 jackup drilling rigs across the years. They're a mix of Super M2, a Friede & Goldman design. But predominantly, we've built LeTourneau 116E rigs. So we're just finishing off the last one now. We've delivered and completed 11 land rigs across the years, and there's literally hundreds of rig refurbishments we've done, which is really ranging from the fairly minor five-year survey-type work to large, large conversions. And down the front of the office that I'm in here, there's two walls which are full of plaques actually for all the rigs that we refurbished, and that's for a huge range of clients, different geographies across the world. They were passing this way, either passing this way for a drilling contract or some of them will even come out of other countries such as India because of the reputation that we have to come over and work with us.

00:08:49 KC Yost
As far away as India? Oh, that's impressive. That's great that your reputation is carrying out that way. That's excellent, excellent. So with regard to Caterpillar, I've read about Lamprell's collaboration with Al-Bahar for power solutions. So can you share how this partnership has been crucial in Lamprell's projects? I've been asked to specifically say something to the effect, especially during the COVID-19 pandemic. Again, I'm isolated here in Houston, and I know what it was like here in the States, but I have no real feel how it was in Abu Dhabi.

00:09:33 Zadok van Winden
Yeah, okay. So on all the projects that Lamprell have done, jackup drilling rigs, we've always used, for all 30 we used Al-Bahar Caterpillar engines. So that's a testament to itself from both the shipyard in terms of getting the best solution, but really that's heavily driven by clients and operators and in terms of what they want to use. And they're heavily looking at reliability. And so for us, Al-Bahar have always been very supportive. They've got a great network here, and particularly at the beginning. So when I say, "Beginning," it's probably 15-ish years ago, 10, 15 years ago. The integration of the Caterpillar engine with the switchgear systems that were available from other vendors, drilling system vendors like National Oilwell Varco and Cameron, hadn't been done so much in the Middle East. So it was quite a challenging period to bring those two together. But because Al-Bahar have their own resources here, we had access to the US and service engineers and reps from the US, so I remember that we used to get on calls or they would come over and assist. So they've always been really good to deal with, available, huge depth of resource and capability to help us get really the most key components on a drilling rig in terms of construction up and running. We design our entire loaddout on the basis of having the engines started. So we build the hull, we get the engines in, we commission the engines, and then we can operate the jacking system, jack the rig up, and then load it out. So yeah, Al-Bahar have been there with us all the way.

00:11:11 KC Yost
One of the first words you used in that answer was talking about reliability. So can you explain how reliable power solutions impact the efficiency and success of offshore drilling projects? Obviously, there's got to be that reliability or you wouldn't keep going back to them.

00:11:28 Zadok van Winden
Yeah, yeah. So absolutely, and I covered it a little bit earlier, but we, as I mentioned, about a year into building a jackup drilling rig, we start up the engines. And then from there on, about nine to 12 months we spend finishing off the rig and we're heavily into commissioning. And to have those engines, the rigs that we build, there's five Caterpillar engines on, and to have them just function the way they're supposed to function reliably day in, day out because we run them day and night if necessary, and just to have that, the constant reliability is really important to us because our entire commissioning program is based on that. And in my experience, over the 30 rigs that Lamprell have built, the ones that I've specifically been involved with, we have never had major problems with Caterpillar engines. For want of a better expression, they're like Sherman tanks. They just keep on going. You'll have a small issue here and there, but they just keep going. And when you compare that to other rotating equipment or other things in the commissioning program, stuff happens. It's just normal for things just to go wrong and break and whatever, but the reliability of those Caterpillars during commissioning is just remarkable. And that then-

00:12:38 KC Yost
The last-

00:12:38 Zadok van Winden
Sorry.

00:12:40 KC Yost
I was just going to say, the last place you want to have reliability problems is when you're offshore.

00:12:45 Zadok van Winden
Absolutely. So we commission them, and that same reliability that we see here in the shipyard, they experience offshore. So you'll see these guys that we get warranty claims for stuff in the first year or so because we're obligated to cover that. You very rarely, if ever, see any warranty claims raised against Caterpillar engines. And you talk to clients when they come back in or for the rig refurbishment, and they've always said, "Yeah, Caterpillar is what we like," and it is because they're reliable. They do what they're supposed to do day in and day out.

00:13:20 KC Yost
I appreciate your kind words about Caterpillar. That's great to know. It sounds like they've earned it, but I appreciate you saying it, so that's wonderful. It's wonderful. Changing the subject a little bit, let's talk about sustainability for a little bit. So how does your company approach sustainability in its offshore drilling projects, and how does this efficient and reliable equipment that we're talking about play in this regard?

00:13:51 Zadok van Winden
Yeah, I guess I'll break that up into two parts. So efficient and reliable equipment really forms part of the piece that Lamprell were trying to achieve. We are very motivated to achieve sustainability goals. We are actually, within the organization that we run, it's a EPCI business, 13 of the 17 United Nations Sustainability Goals are applicable to us, and we go or set about putting programs in place such that we can contribute towards that. So when we look at the projects that we build, we are motivated to get equipment into those projects that's efficient because just number one, it's reduced emissions, of course, which we're all trying to target, but efficiency does so many things in terms of the sizing and ease of use. So that's definitely there. Across our own facilities, actually we do use Caterpillar generators as well. So getting that efficiency in there, reducing emissions is a big part of what we do. And just to move into the overall sustainability picture, Lamprell formed a sustainability committee back in 2021 to work on the projects that will contribute to the goals that I've just previously mentioned. We do things like, well, first of all, preventative marine pollution. So we operate quite in an environment that can easily pollute the maritime area that we work in. So our number one goal with respect to that is to prevent any marine pollution. We do contribute also to keeping all the marine water area where we are clean and tidy, we have beach cleanups, we pick up tons of rubbish, we're moving into solar power where we can to diverge away from the diesel power generators and the grid, which is actually diesel power or oil power to the end. So all of these things, and really the big thing in all of that, when you take the efficient equipment, when you take the drive from clients to go that way, when you take the vendors and you take ourselves, it's an ethos and a culture that takes you to where you want to go. And when I was reading through this earlier, it just struck me that the amount of teaching that we're giving to the next generation are very different compared to when I was a child, and I'm sure when you were as well. I still remember in Australia in the'80s, my father threw his cigarettes out the window and we threw Coke cans out the window. There wasn't that much concern for that sort of stuff in the environment. Now my kids, I've got two kids, so seven and nine, and they're constantly talking about, "What can we recycle? What can we repurpose? What's sustainable?" And so we are setting up the next generation to pick up the baton and really run with this stuff, and it's become so important when you deal with projects and vendors to make sure that you're covering the environmental and sustainability aspects of what's been provided.

00:16:48 KC Yost
You know, at the end of the day, it's the right thing to do, and it's all about protecting Mother Earth, if you will. And I was always taught as a Boy Scout when we went camping to make sure that you policed your area and you picked up everything and you left the ground the way you found it when you left, just to make sure that you respected the area that you were in and the people that were coming in next. Don't leave trash for others to pick up. Police the area and make it nice and clean. So I appreciate what you guys are doing. That's a wonderful, wonderful example for the next generation, so good on you. That is an Australian phrase, isn't it, "Good on you"?

00:17:41 Zadok van Winden
Good on you, mate.

00:17:41 KC Yost
Good on you, mate. There you go. There you go. Let's talk a little bit about technology and innovation. So we all know innovation drives progress in any industry. It doesn't make any difference. You're in the fab shop, you're building these jackups and doing all sorts of really cool stuff with fabrication and putting these pieces together. I'm a pipeliner, but we have some nice innovations on the midstream market and that type of thing. So how is Lamprell incorporating technology advancements to enhance its services and maintain a competitive edge, if you will?

00:18:21 Zadok van Winden
Yeah, so interesting question. I do think the industry that we work in, the fabrication industry has been a little bit trapped in a place where we haven't used or been driven or forced to use or need to use digitization or innovation too much. It was always, "If it's not broke, don't fix it. We get the job done." And there's always been no drives to improve efficiency and things like that, and maybe a bit of automation. But what Lamprell management have really seen a while ago is that with the AI really taking a forefront and the digitization opportunities that we have, to be able to then leverage that into the business and be able to use that either to improve our own business or actually to make it a saleable product if we can get some of these things to work for us is a massive niche that we've been chasing after. There are pretty much four areas that we are working on. Robotic welding is one. So that really is then to improve efficiency and reliability. Welding is always inherent with human intervention to come with flaws, but if you can do that basically flaw-free at a high level of quality, you really then are able to produce a lot faster and more efficiently. We've really looked into connected work sites, and by that I mean that the workforce would individually wear the wearables and that would track their health heart rates, those sorts of things. It would track their location and how they move. So we just cover the health bit for one. Here in the Middle East, it gets very, very hot in the summer. UVs and the radiated heat and the real feel that you get around you, it's 60 degrees outside there sometimes against the steel. And we have very robust systems. We protect our guys from really being in those sorts of heats, but monitoring their vitals and being able to help them when you see those sorts of triggers is important to us. So we've been working on that. Plus, then we can get man-movement tracks and really work out inefficiencies in the way that our people move around and should be able to set up the work sites better to get more efficient throughput. We are looking into and have actually done a couple of projects with asset integrity. It's where you place sensors onto your assets and you can get real-time feedback with respect to the stresses, et cetera, that are in there. And through that, you can design preventative maintenance programs. You can then work out how to extend the life of particular assets. And then we're also looking at or actually operating digital twin. And this is actually a requirement around our projects as well. That's the idea or the concept is that anything that you would engineer, procure, construct, install has a digital twin that would basically be at the same level of maturity that that was through the process. You could go into the digital twin. The model really is just a lifelike model at end of the stages and see where the construction actually was. And that's during both build and then passed across to operations. Aramco actually mandate that. We have to use that during the lifecycle of the build. We pass that to them as well, and then they use that during operation. So we're really looking into these areas and quite a lot of study is often involved in actually bringing real benefit into the company. And that's sometimes I think where the industry's got stuck in the past is, "Well, it works, so why fix it?" But we've had some real breakthroughs and we continue to work our way out because we think it's a big opportunity for us.

00:22:01 KC Yost
Excellent, excellent. By the way, two points. One, you said, "60 degrees." I want to make sure that those people that are listening here in the States understand that 60 degrees C, which is my quick calculation, over 100 degrees Fahrenheit. Hot.

00:22:18 Zadok van Winden
Yeah, I think that's 140-ish Fahrenheit, I guess.

00:22:21 KC Yost
Right. Yeah, fair enough. Well over 100 degrees, yeah. So I didn't want anyone say, "Well, 60 degrees isn't anything." 60 degrees C.

00:22:29 Zadok van Winden
Celsius.

00:22:30 KC Yost
I try to be bilingual whenever I can, but I caught that. So with this technology, you were talking about the tracking and the welding and making sure, looking at progress in the fabrication, does this tie back, the technology and innovation, tie back into your engineering and engineering design? You do have an engineering design staff, correct?

00:22:52 Zadok van Winden
Yes, correct. So it ties all back into that. So when we build the digital twin, for example, that's done through the modeling process. So whether you rely on information or you feed information or you're given your drawings by the client, we construct a model. The modeling has been around in the industry for a long, long time. It just eases the clashes, it allows you to draw on all the fabrication deliverables that now are able to come out of that model. But models have become very intelligent now where you can load all the characteristics of the material in there and that then builds up part of your digital twin where you can go in and do walkthroughs in the model and use it for all different sorts of things. And that actual asset, through the engineering process and through the build process, can then be passed across to the client as a package that they then use post-delivery as well.

00:23:43 KC Yost
Excellent, excellent, excellent. You talk about design, we talk about fabrication. We have a phrase here that we use, we call friendly competition. And at the end of the day, it's basically all of us who have challenges in our particular industry getting together and coming up with a solution to take care of the solution. API, ASME, we can name off Southern Gas Association, we can name off a number of industry associations where we, as frenemies, if you will, work together to fight and come up with good solutions for standard problems. So how does Lamprell or does Lamprell engage with partners, and if you will, the industry peers, your frenemies, if you will, to drive innovation and overcome these shared obstacles like we do here in the States?

00:24:53 Zadok van Winden
Yeah, so definitely. There's all different sorts of platforms which we participate in to solve those sorts of problems. I think to give you an example of a couple would be ABS, which is the American Bureau of Shipping, which you're probably familiar with. It's based over there in Houston. And they have a certain part of the code called the Module Code, which deals with the jackup drilling rigs. We are a member. I'm actually a member of the committee that then reviews the rule changes that come out. So myself and a bunch of other industry experts, some people are ranging from project management, engineering and all different kinds of backgrounds, actually meet regular through the year and once a year actually converge on a location. I think it's Houston this year. It's in a couple of weeks. And we talk through the rules and the new rulings. The rulings are actually driven by legislation. It could be environmental, it could be different types of things that are brought in. And in those places, we talk about, "What impact is this rule going to have on the fabrication industry?" That's the part that's obviously important to us. There's operators there that will talk about the other parts. So we collaborate and ABS, being a body and not there just to set rules, they say, "Well, what's best for the builders and what's best for the operators?" So we participate in that kind of discussion. There's other forums with API, et cetera, that are similar. And another similar type forum would be with the various Aramco contractors. So in the Long-Term Agreement process, it's 10 contractors, really only five that play in the space really, that are serious. And we are frenemies, as you call it, but we've all got the same challenge through the process. And we will meet sometimes when our interfaces come together. So some of the projects that you build, you have interface between two or three of our different competitors and we'll have to come together at a location, probably set up through Teams, and then face-to-face, and you go through your integration interface workshops and solve common problems that you have. And through there, you're actually able to then work out, "How did you guys do this?" And it's not necessarily associated with the exact problem that you're dealing with, but we've all got the same client, all got the same challenges. And through those kinds of discussions, we're able to either share ideas and solutions and solve problems together.

00:27:15 KC Yost
I mean, at the end of the day, collaboration amongst your peers adds value, not only to yourself, but to the product that you end up delivering to your client. The idea of standardization, you and I mentioned, or you and I talked before we started recording that I did spend some time in Queensland. I've been in Colombia, I spent some time in Baghdad, I've been all throughout the United States, I've been to Canada and done projects there. At the end of the day, when we're talking about trying to look at the different federal standards, Australia versus Colombia versus Canada versus the US, on and on, there are always wrinkles. But at the end of the day, if I go in and say, "I want to design according to this specification, ASME B31. 8," or whatever, everyone says, "Yes," everyone understands that. And the collaboration that you're talking about with the associations you're working with allows everyone to talk on the same level with the same specification. So at the end of the day, the client doesn't get a 737 on one design and an Airbus on another design and leave their operations people to try to figure out which tools to bring for that operation.

00:28:42 Zadok van Winden
Yep, absolutely

00:28:43 KC Yost
Is that a good analogy?

00:28:47 Zadok van Winden
Yeah, that resonates with me. It makes sense. Exactly.

00:28:48 KC Yost
Good, good. Anyway, so your company's got a global reach. You talked about being in Houston and the different work that you're doing. So can you elaborate on the company's operations in different regions? I know you're working all over the world or have worked all over the world, correct?

00:29:06 Zadok van Winden
Yeah. So we are a Middle Eastern company. The headquarters is here in UAE. We have an office in LKSA, Lamprell Saudi Arabia, which we do work in Saudi, predominantly doing the in-Kingdom portions of our Aramco projects. We have another company there, Sunbelt, through which we manage safety services. So we build and deliver throughout the Middle East, whether it's land, we do engineering construction on land, we do offshore, we deliver jackup drilling rigs into the Middle East here, India. But we also do deliver projects to clients either overseas, so if you take one of our renewable projects, for example, we would take the transportation, the re-import transportation part of that contract also, and we would deliver quayside into the UK, quayside into Europe. So there's projects that are like that. And then I guess added to that in terms of our real global reach, there's been projects in the past where we've actually delivered projects or parts of projects into Europe. Netherlands is one location, Belfast, Harland & Wolff was another location, and we actually physically finished the projects off there. And that's often due to either local content rules or just the way the contract has been set up. A number of years ago, we delivered two rigs into the Caspian Sea in Russia. And because of the narrow waterways into the Caspian, you can't actually flow the jackup drilling rig into the Caspian. So we built it in pieces, took it up the Volga on canals, and put it together in the Caspian. So it was a Russian workforce, but Lamprell were the main overseers of that work. And as the need expands, US is really pushing hard on the renewables, so we've been bidding work there. There's visits there to talk to clients there. So I will be in, visit in the very near future. We're delivering renewables products to US, Europe, UK as we continue to grow.

00:31:12 KC Yost
I thought it was interesting you were talking about taking the rig and splitting it up and then having it put back together again. One of the challenges in any offshore project is the logistics of getting a product or whatever from the fabrication yard out to the site. That's always a huge challenge in making sure that you can get it from point A to point B, probably as important as the engineering design, my opinion.

00:31:47 Zadok van Winden
Yep, absolutely.

00:31:50 KC Yost
Time and money are always a challenge in logistics. Okay, good. So I've enjoyed this conversation quite a bit. So we've got a lot of young listeners on the podcast. So if you have some young engineers or aspiring professionals wanting to enter the energy sector, particularly as you and I have been talking about, offshore oil and gas project execution, do you have any advice or insights that you'd like to share?

00:32:26 Zadok van Winden
Yeah, it's an interesting question really. Back when I first started here in 2004, 20-odd years ago, people would say to me, "Oh, what industry do you work in?" You say, "Oil and gas," they're like, "Oh, wow. Cool industry. You must be... That's great. I'd love to work in that kind of industry. You must be doing really well." "Yeah, yeah. Cool." 15 years later, you say, "I work in oil and gas," and some people are like, "Ugh, ugh, ugh." But I think we need to understand that oil and gas is always going to be here. It's required for the transition. We at Lamprell are absolutely committed, as the rest of the world, most the rest of the world is to Net Zero 2050. And I think there's sometimes a misunderstanding that Net Zero 2050 doesn't mean that petro cans and oil and gas fades away. It means that there's a major transition across to renewables, but that we're also regenerating the Earth through planting trees, which we inaudible participate in, and also regeneration of the soil and carbon capture programs. So you're actually reducing the carbon footprint by transitioning to the renewables, but you're also able to then really take and draw a lot of carbon out of the atmosphere through, as you called it, really regenerating Mother Earth. And I think we need to understand that in our desire to get to that much better balance between oil and gas and renewables, oil and gas is the enabler to get there. If you can't afford the oil and gas today, we wouldn't be doing anything. And in the West, we've been using oil and gas for 50, 60, 70, 100 hundred years. There's developing nations who are just turning on their lights now with oil and gas. So there's lots of sort of challenges in all of that. But what I would say to the young people is the energy industry, if you would call it that, whether it's oil and gas, whether it's renewables, whatever it might be, is an exciting place to be. And if you really look and say, if you start in oil and gas and you transition across to renewables, a lot of the skills are the same. So I would really encourage that, and particularly in the renewables or the transition across, a lot of it's cutting edge and really exciting when you talk about floating wind, when we're looking at wave generation, when you're looking at wind-powered ships and all these sorts of things, it's really an exciting place to be. So I don't think there should be this dim, dull view of oil and gas energy. The world is always going to need energy. We're going to have to innovate significantly to keep Mother Earth the way that she's designed to be. And so yeah, get in and be part of it.

00:34:52 KC Yost
Great insight. Great insight. That's fantastic. I appreciate you sharing your thoughts on that. So my last question, you are the Director of Project at Lamprell, and I know that leadership is crucial to what you do. Do you have any leadership principles or strategies that you find most effective in ensuring project success?

00:35:19 Zadok van Winden
I think the number one thing I've learned over the years is that you really can't do better than good people with a great attitude. Good people, in my opinion, will sort of get you 80, 90% of the way there. Good people, good attitude. You get them in place, you give them clear objectives and an organizational structure around them, and those people will do anything for you. That's my experience. It's very, very easy to lead a group of people who are good at what they do, who want to be there, want to be engaged. It's part of the leader's job to actually keep that engagement high and give them some objectives with regular check-ins and you set an organizational structure around them that supports them, and I think leaders can achieve amazing things with that sort of team set up.

00:36:08 KC Yost
I've always found that hiring people with the good attitude that you're talking about is much more important than hiring someone with the experience. You can always teach people how to do the nuts and the bolts, but you can't teach attitude.

00:36:24 Zadok van Winden
Agreed, yeah.

00:36:28 KC Yost
Good, good. Anyway, I've enjoyed this conversation. It's been great. Is there anything else that you'd like to add to our discussion and pass on to our listeners?

00:36:41 Zadok van Winden
I missed the question before about COVID. I just realized that. I'm not sure whether you want me to answer that or not.

00:36:50 KC Yost
Well, it was a few years ago, but if you have some insights on how you guys handled it, that'd be pretty interesting.

00:36:56 Zadok van Winden
Yeah. Well, I guess every country dealt with it definitely. But there was always the precautions that were in place, they were always there. But the delivery mentality here in the Middle East and the support that we got from the governmental structure, and then really our own company with respect to how to observe all the safety procedures that were in place, but still be able to deliver our projects near about on time, and that ranged from vendors to our own management, to access to FAT through video calls and stuff. It was a challenging time, but the requirements in the industry to still deliver were always there, but we do have an amazing support network here in UAE to be able to uphold at least a decent part of the delivery we were committed to.

00:37:48 KC Yost
That's a sign of excellent management when you run into one of these obstacles, like we talked about earlier, and you figure out a way to get the job done, even with the obstacles in front of you. Hats off to you for doing that. Okay, great. Zadok, thanks for taking the time to visit with us today. For our listeners, if anyone would like to learn more about Lamprell Energy, you can find them on the web at lamprell.com. That's L-A-M-P-R-E-L-L dot com. And if you'd like to have more information on Al-Bahar, a Cat representative since 1959, they've been around with us for a long, long time, you can find them at albahargroup.com. That's A-L-B-A-H-A-R-G-R-O-U-P dot com. So thanks to all of you for tuning into this episode of the Energy Pipeline Podcast, sponsored by Caterpillar Oil & Gas. If you have any questions, comments, or ideas for podcast topics, feel free to email me at KC.Yost@OGGN.com. I also want to thank my producer, Anastasia Willison-Duff, and everyone at the Oil and Gas Global Network for making this podcast possible. Find out more about other OGGN podcasts at OGGN.com. This is KC Yost saying goodbye for now. Have a great week and keep that energy flowing through the pipeline.

00:39:20 Speaker 2
Come back next week for another episode of The Energy Pipeline, a production of the Oil and Gas Global Network. To learn more, go to OGGN.com.