00:00:03 Speaker 1
Welcome to The Energy Pipeline Podcast with your host, KC Yost. Tune in each week to learn more about industry issues, tools, and resources to streamline and modernize the future of the industry. Whether you work in oil and gas or bring a unique perspective, this podcast is your knowledge transfer hub. Welcome to The Energy Pipeline.

00:00:28 KC Yost
Hello, everyone, and welcome to this episode of The Energy Pipeline Podcast. I'm very excited, extremely excited to introduce today's guest. I've been looking forward to this visit for quite a while. Our guest is Mike Howard, Chairman and CEO of Howard Energy Partners. Mike and I will be discussing his background, how Howard Energy Partners was formed, and how it's grown so quickly in 13 short years, the importance of energy advocacy, and what he sees as the future of midstream energy industry. So, welcome to The Energy Pipeline Podcast, Mike.

00:01:03 Mike Howard
Thank you, KC. Thanks for having me.

00:01:05 KC Yost
Oh, great to have you here. Great to have you here. So, let's talk about your background. You and I talked a little bit before we started recording. This truly is one of those situations. Small town boy does good in Agua Dulce, Texas. Not many people know where it is. You want to tell us a little bit about your background?

00:01:25 Mike Howard
Yeah, it's a small town in South Texas. The joke is I graduated with 28 people in high school and I was number two in my class. So, I barely made the top 10%. My dad was an ag teacher there at the little school, so raising animals and doing agriculture related stuff, had no idea that Agua Dulce is a very famous place for natural gas and natural gas trading, the Agua Dulce hub.

00:01:53 KC Yost
In fact, I spent a lot of time in and around Agua Dulce in the '70s and early '80s, so I knew exactly where it was when you made mention of it. So, good. Yeah. By the way, congrats, I understand your dad is now the mayor of Agua Dulce. Is that correct?

00:02:09 Mike Howard
That's right. Yeah, it's an elected position, but it feels pretty voluntary because there's no pay involved. He stays pretty busy keeping the sewer plant and the water tower up and running.

00:02:18 KC Yost
Outstanding. Outstanding. Good for him. Good for him. Good for him. Good for him. So, anyway, so you graduated in the top 10% of your class and you went off to college.

00:02:28 Mike Howard
Yeah, I went to university at Texas A & M Kingsville, but when I started there, it was Texas A & I. It changed names in 1993, my junior year essentially. So, my diploma actually says Texas A & M Kingsville, and I was pretty upset by that because of the engineering lineage that was from the natural gas engineering program, chemical engineering program. Very, very well-known school. When it changed, my first job, I worked for an aggie and he said, "Man, too bad you couldn't have made it to the main campus." I always had that chip on my shoulder.

00:03:09 KC Yost
Yeah, I got you. Well, they're still the Javelinas, right?

00:03:12 Mike Howard
We're still the Javelinas. That's right. Very proud Hoggies.

00:03:15 KC Yost
Good, good, good. I can't remember the name of the famous football player that played there.

00:03:21 Mike Howard
A couple of them. John Randle is from there. Johnny Bailey is from there. The fastest guy in NFL at one time was Daryl Green. He's from there.

00:03:30 KC Yost
Yes. There you go. There you go.

00:03:33 Mike Howard
One of the top-rated NFL recruiting colleges in the US for a long time, believe it or not.

00:03:38 KC Yost
Outstanding. Outstanding. The aggie told you it's a shame you couldn't get to the main campus. I get that.

00:03:45 Mike Howard
That guy ended up working for me and retiring from my company.

00:03:54 KC Yost
There you go. Turnabout's fair play, isn't it?

00:03:57 Mike Howard
That's right.

00:03:57 KC Yost
Yeah. So, you graduated as a chemie.

00:04:00 Mike Howard
That's right, chemical engineer. What I'm really proud of is that I went through an intern program with Union Pacific Resources at the time. They came to the university, recruited there, and they kept me on after that first summer at a gas plant that was only about 15 miles outside of Kingsville. So, I got to work in a gas plant in the mornings, go to school in the evenings or opposite depending on what my schedule was. So, about the last three years of my formal education, I was doing industrial work and going to university. So, by the time I graduated, I felt like I was ahead of the pack of most graduates.

00:04:41 KC Yost
Boy, you surely were, surely were. When you look at your profile on LinkedIn, you see that overlap. I was thinking, "All right, this guy worked his way through college and kicked ass and took names and got really into that heavily." So Union Pacific is the old railroad company, and they were heavily involved with the resource development and oil and gas industry at the time.

00:05:05 Mike Howard
That's exactly right. The interesting thing about the railroad is up in Wyoming in that area, every other section of land was deeded to the railroad. So, they actually developed a lot of those resources over time. They ran into some financial trouble in 1999, and actually, Anadarko took over some of those assets. Then on the midstream side, those all went to... Which is now DCP Midstream. At the time, it was called Duke Energy Field Services, but now DCP Midstream. Union Pacific is some of the seed assets, midstream assets that now today is DCP.

00:05:42 KC Yost
Yeah, yeah. Then the metamorphosis of the industry over the last 20 years is amazing, let alone the last 50 years. It's really, really interesting.

00:05:52 Mike Howard
Yeah. When I came out of university, you had these big companies that were integrated. There wasn't really, in my opinion, a midstream industry per se. You had major interstate pipelines, but the gathering and processing and treating compression was all done in the major integrates. Then as Conoco sold assets, Exxon sold assets, Chevron sold assets, Union Pacific Resources and others that created this midstream industry. Now what we're seeing is the reconsolidation of that industry again, which I find to be fascinating.

00:06:22 KC Yost
Got you. So, your genesis was working in a gas plant.

00:06:28 Mike Howard
That's right.

00:06:29 KC Yost
Then what happened from there?

00:06:31 Mike Howard
I graduated university, and at the time, Union Pacific was drilling horizontal wells. That was a really exotic thing to be doing in the mid-90s. We were completing a well a day. So, that was really aggressive at that day and time, because back then, you would drill vertical holes into large reservoirs and you wouldn't really do horizontal drilling. Union Pacific was one of the leaders in doing that. To keep up with the midstream infrastructure of that was pretty challenging. How to build pipelines, compressor stations, treating plants and cryogenic gas plants at the same pace in which they're drilling these wells really taught you how to execute, how to skid-mount things, how to make things happen in a shorter timeframe than what we were used to doing things, doing block-mounted type big stuff. We learned how to build large cryogenic gas plants quickly. So, my first five years of my career, I think I built grassroots six cryogenic gas plants from the ground up.

00:07:32 KC Yost
Wow.

00:07:33 Mike Howard
That's a lot of experience in a short amount of time.

00:07:35 KC Yost
That's amazing. That's amazing. So, you got this wealth of knowledge. The podcast that was released last week prior to this podcast release, a guy named Hoyt Brown, who's director of engineering and drafting over at TC Energy for pipelines. He was making mention about how important it is for engineers when they come out to get a firm basis of experience. I think I used the phrase going the small end of the horn to come out the big end of the horn. You've got to build that foundation of experience and knowledge in the industry in order to use that as a foundation in which to grow, right? That's what you did so rapidly in those first few years.

00:08:23 Mike Howard
Yeah, it certainly worked for me. I actually thought I was going to be a field guy. Coming from my background, I was working in the crop fields around Agua Dulce, doing manual labor up until my sophomore year in college. So, I thought that was my past. So, when I've got to be in a gas plant turning wrenches and then being a construction engineer, construction manager, startup engineer, heck, working seven days a week and getting all this knowledge, I didn't think about progressing in the industry. I was thinking this is the best job I could ever have. Looking back now, that was almost 30 years ago. Wow, what a foundation. We just finished our intern class of 2024 here at Howard Energy that every year I've been in business, not only at Howard Energy, but previous companies, we've had an intern class to do the same thing, to have these programs to send these young guys and girls out to the field, let them live in garden spots like Laredo, Texas or Orla, Texas or up in Pennsylvania, some of our assets there. That way, they can get that knowledge before putting them in an office somewhere. I think it's the way to go.

00:09:34 KC Yost
Tennessee Gas Pipeline had me out in the field for 18 months in the engineering training program back in the mid-70s when I got out. That was very, very important back then. All of the major operating companies did it. They basically said something to the effect, there's no point in you learning how to design a meter in a regulator station if you haven't worked on one and figured out how to break one down and the problems of having a flange too close to a riser, et cetera. They were spot on with that argument and you've got all that going. So, anyway, field engineer, doing all of this stuff, doing all this work, how do you get from there to Howard Energy Partners?

00:10:19 Mike Howard
I was really fortunate. As I was promoted and I guess showed some confidence, I said yes to every promotion, no matter what city it was in, and took a chance on a job in Dallas going from a very large company in Duke Energy Field Services, went to work for a small master limited partnership called CrossTech Synergy. They gave me a vice president's job, which going from an asset manager to field level had about 100 employees to a vice president and we had assets in a couple of different states, that was a big move. I remember going to Men's Wearhouse and buying my first pair of slacks because in Dallas, the boots and jeans wasn't working for me. But I think it was my soft skills, the communication skills. Yes, I had the technical knowledge of the industry, and yes, I was always known as a leader, but being able to communicate, I was able to make that transition from technical to the business side pretty easily starting in that job. Within 18 months, Kelsey Warren at Energy Transfer took notice of me in Dallas and called one day. I visited with him and gave me an offer that really propelled my career in making me a chief operating officer at the time of Energy Transfer. It was a much smaller company, but it was still already a Fortune 100 company.

00:11:50 KC Yost
Sure.

00:11:51 Mike Howard
They didn't miss me after I left there after five and a half years, but they're unbelievable what they've accomplished. But being associated with them and the responsibility they gave me and proven myself over and over again really gave me the confidence to say, "Hey, if I can do this for a publicly traded company, what can I do on my own?" I had no vision that Howard Energy would be the size that it is today. I was more chasing fulfillment, chasing what I would say ignorantly now happiness. I'd say fulfillment is probably more accurate, but the stress of working for a publicly traded company, especially a master limited partnership where each quarter you're having to increase distributions. It's not about looking forward 10 years. It's about looking forward in four months basically. I felt like there had to be a better way to live than that. So, all that, when I left Energy Transfer, I had zero plan besides I just didn't want to work at that pace and that speed anymore. Even though I think at Howard Energy, we've probably worked at that pace, but it's been at the pace that I want and be able to manage the stress the way I want to. Now, 13 years later, you look up, we're operating in four states and two countries, have 400 employees, and backed by a very long-term thinking partner in a pension fund in Canada. So, I'm not worried about next quarter. I'm literally thinking out three to five years and think about how to position ourselves for success and our investors really appreciate that.

00:13:32 KC Yost
So let's talk about the genesis of Howard Energy Partners. You decided to go out on your own and you made a few telephone calls to find some investors. You had a business plan written, all of that thing.

00:13:48 Mike Howard
It wasn't pretty, KC. I was so arrogant and believed that I knew so much about the business and I did. I knew a lot of the technical stuff. I knew how to move oil and gas and I knew how to treat it. I know how to cryogenically process it. I know how to lead people to put together big facilities and pipelines. I didn't understand necessarily the nuts and bolts of what it took to raise capital. Raising capital is a skill all in of itself. The sales that you need to have as a CEO, I probably inherently had, but I didn't realize how important it was to convince people to give you millions, now today it's billions of dollars to entrust in you. In a publicly traded company, it doesn't feel real versus when your name is on the door and they're giving you that money. The first two investors I had, one was CrossTech Synergy, which is the company I worked for-

00:14:44 KC Yost
Sure.

00:14:44 Mike Howard
... for 18 months in Dallas, which they're helping a competing company get started. Then a pipeline company named Quanta Services gave me $35 million. So, those two companies came together to give me money, and I went and bought two companies, one a construction company, one a pipeline company. That started Howard Energy Partners. But knowing what I know now and how hard it was and how hard it still is, I'm still grinding, I don't know that I would have the guts to leave such a good cushy job that I had.

00:15:19 KC Yost
Well, do you have the business plan filed away somewhere and all of the iterations that you went through and pull it out every once in a while and say, "Look how far we've come"?

00:15:32 Mike Howard
I'll tell you the biggest thing that I learned is the business plan didn't work. My vision was to have an engineering company, construction company, and midstream company. So, I could actually design, build, own, and operate my own pipes.

00:15:46 KC Yost
Sure, vertically integrated.

00:15:48 Mike Howard
Vertically integrated. The worst project Howard Energy's ever done is when we owned our own construction company and our construction company built our first pipeline. It was 26 miles and 12 inch, and we damn near doubled the budget on it because we were so bad at it. So, I sold the construction company for a profit. It was a good deal, but I figured out that vertically integrating doesn't always work.

00:16:12 KC Yost
Right, right. I totally get what you're saying. Totally get what you're saying. Well, good for you. I think that's fantastic. So, you guys have grown tremendously. Can you give us a few facts on how big Howard Energy Partners is now?

00:16:31 Mike Howard
Yeah, we started with five employees. We have 400 now. We have about 1,400 miles of pipeline. We move about two and a half BCF a day of natural gas. We move a couple hundred thousand barrels a day of different sorts of liquids. Our strategy to begin with was to have a diversified portfolio of assets, make money a bunch of different ways, because one thing I've learned being in this business so long, and you have too, is how these companies come and go, the cycles of the business. I wanted to figure out a way to have a sustainable company, which means sustainable in business where I can be alive in all cycles. So, we have assets where we export gasoline and diesel out of the Gulf Coast. We have natural gas export into Mexico. We have gathering and processing in West Texas, gathering in Pennsylvania. So, all in major basins where they've been drilling for natural gas and oil for 100 years, they're going to be drilling for another 100 years. All in demand pool areas where oil and gas is needed, which is basically everywhere, but really these areas that the demand is growing. We've been able to put a business plan together that just keeps on getting better and better.

00:17:49 KC Yost
In the almost 50 years that I've been in the industry, I've seen the cycles. I lived through the early'80s, I lived through 2009. You have as well. So, do you have a strategic plan to stay with some industries that are counter-cyclical to others or businesses that are counter-cyclical to others or do you ride that wave?

00:18:15 Mike Howard
No. So, what we do is we don't chase drilling rigs. We try not to chase drilling rigs. So, we're trying to stay in these demand pool areas. So, as drilling is down in Eagleford right now, the demand pool of Mexico sustains. Our pipelines are still full in South Texas. If we were only on the supply side, it'd be pretty rough right now in South Texas. West Texas is booming because of the crude oil focus there. Mexico imports most of their gasoline and diesel. We have large gasoline and diesel export facilities in Port Arthur and Corpus Christi. So, depending on what's going on in different areas, we generally have some business that is counter-cyclical to something else. We have a business in South Texas that actually has hydrogen being produced at our Havalina facility. That's tied directly to the refineries in South Texas. That is not tied to drilling rigs. So, we love drilling rig access for the upsides, but something to counteract the downsides. Where the business model proved itself is COVID. We've grown every year we've been in business. We grew through COVID even when everything was slowing down just because people still needed energy.

00:19:26 KC Yost
Got you.

00:19:27 Mike Howard
So our export facilities were still good.

00:19:30 KC Yost
Good, good, good. Well, I want to get to energy advocacy here in a minute, but my sponsor is Cat Oil and Gas. So, tell me, do you have any Cat drivers out on your pipeline?

00:19:42 Mike Howard
We do. We love them. We have about 170, 000 horsepower of Caterpillar engines out there, anywhere from our natural gas plants to our treating stations to our main line compressor stations. Vast, vast, vast, 90 +% majority are Caterpillar.

00:20:00 KC Yost
Great, great, great. Well, shout out to Cat. Cat, thank you very much. All right. So, let's talk about energy advocacy. That seems to be a subject near and dear to your heart. The energy industry, especially fossil fuels if you will, has been made out to be the bad guys. So, can you elaborate on your position on energy advocacy and where we are and where we need to be?

00:20:27 Mike Howard
Yeah. It goes back to my personal evolution. Here I am, chemical engineer, always worked in the energy business. Around 2014, about three or four years after Howard Energy was created, I started thinking like, "Man, we need to probably get off into renewables." It sounds like this climate change stuff, there may be some real concern going on, the negative press we're receiving in the energy business. I'm thinking you have to maybe watch your biases. I thought I was biased and started doing some deep research on this topic. Through that research, and this has started with reading Alex Epstein's first book, Moral Case for Fossil Fuels, or watching Dr. Scott Tinker give his presentations back in the day. All this research we did, I would read IPCC reports, I would read EIA report, I'd read all this stuff. My eyes were opened in that this is by far the most important job that I could have. This is the industry that powers every other industry. I'm thinking if I with my name on the door was having doubts about our industry, I bet that's a pretty common theme. So, I started becoming more and more vocal and learning how to become vocal. It did not come natural to me to be vocal about our industry. Why do you have to advocate for something that's needed? It'd be like advocating for oxygen. You need it. You can't live without it. What are you talking about? But this industry didn't do a good job for many years. I'm a part of many groups now, and I support not only financially but with my time many groups that are advocating to educate the non-energy audiences that we try to speak to. We're having a lot of impact, teaching energy executives how to approach people and meet them where they are. Because if you just come in with this Texas swashbuckling, "You need us by God," it just doesn't work real well. We need those people to convert into energy advocates to help this policy because bad policy is crushing us.

00:22:36 KC Yost
Sure.

00:22:37 Mike Howard
The anti-infrastructure policies that we have right now on the federal level, the bad electricity policies we have in Texas, look at where we're in Texas. We're the largest energy producer and we don't have enough electricity in Texas. How do we get here? We're a conservative-led state, so it's not a conservative/ liberal type thing. It's energy ignorance that's got us here. I just think more and more of us could do a better job of advocating for our business.

00:23:01 KC Yost
I got you. I totally agree and appreciate all the efforts that you're going through with that process. You mentioned Dr. Tinker. He's on your board, isn't he?

00:23:15 Mike Howard
Man, I'm so fortunate. Yeah. He joined our board last year and what a world-class guy he is, world-class speaker. He's been talking about this for 20 years. So, I'm just so proud to have him on our board. Anybody that goes and watches his Ted Talk, look at his ARC Forum talk in London last January, just go look at any of the stuff he does and big supporter of the Switch Energy Alliance. We're sponsors of the Case Competition, which 200 universities around the world participate in. We're trying to teach these university students how to solve energy poverty in a lot of these Third World countries. Dr. Scott Tinker is the advocate for that, has done such a good job.

00:23:55 KC Yost
You and I have had a couple of conversations before this podcast, and I think you'd mentioned talking about Dr. Tinker's position about the correlation between energy supply and economic growth.

00:24:11 Mike Howard
That's right.

00:24:13 KC Yost
That there is a correlation between those two and you espouse to get that word out as well, right?

00:24:22 Mike Howard
That's exactly right. The interconnectedness between energy, energy security, economy, they're all interconnected. You can't disconnect any of them. If you focus too much on any one of those particular subjects, you're going to have a problem somewhere else. There's unintended consequences. So, you have to think of all that. If you just think about the climate and the environment, you're missing the boat on poverty, you're missing the boat on economics. So, he has some great sayings about that.

00:24:52 KC Yost
Yeah, very good. Very good. Very good. So, where do you see the industry going? Where do you see the midstream energy firm position in the world in 5 years, 10 years down the road?

00:25:10 Mike Howard
Yeah, we've had massive consolidation in our industry. As the majors are moving back into the US, the same thing's happening in the midstream business that a lot of the bigger companies, the Energy Transfers, the Enterprises, the Williams, the Kinder Morgans are gobbling up these companies and making much larger midstream companies, which there's probably half the number of publicly traded midstream companies today than there were in 2015. So, that trend will continue, which leaves entrepreneurial companies like ours in a great position because they can't get to everything. The projects that we can do, the things that we can provide our customers, sometimes the level of detail, the larger companies can't provide. So, I think there's big opportunity for us. The challenge is though raising money. Capital is not near available for fossil fuel companies than they were. More is being unlocked, but not near the capital availability that we had from 2008 to say 2016. Lot of capital available to our business, but now it's harder and harder to raise capital. So, those of us that have large capital providers, like pension funds, that have entrepreneurial spirits, I think there's a great opportunity for us in the next five years.

00:26:22 KC Yost
So the whole idea of staying smaller, if you will, and nimble allows you to get into markets that the big juggernauts can't get to.

00:26:36 Mike Howard
That's right. We're only a few billion big. Those dozens of billion dollars big, they're harder to move.

00:26:44 KC Yost
Yeah, well, it's relative, isn't it? I mean, I think back in the mid-70s when I was down in Agua Dulce working for Tennessee Gas Pipeline, well, it was swallowed up by El Paso and then Kinder Morgan. So, I just don't know that the name Tennessee Gas Pipeline is out there as much as it used to be, but I mean that used to be, if you will, one of the juggernauts back in the '70s and'80s.

00:27:12 Mike Howard
I remember it well.

00:27:13 KC Yost
Tenneco and all of that. It's pretty amazing, pretty amazing. So, one more thought, and I appreciate the conversation and all of that. You guys are in San Antonio. Why? Why are you in San Antonio and not in Houston, if you will?

00:27:32 Mike Howard
The Houston guys hate it when I say this, but quality of life.

00:27:35 KC Yost
Yeah.

00:27:37 Mike Howard
So I moved all the way north to San Antonio and I've had the distinction of never had to live in Houston. I've had an office there multiple times in my career. Howard Energy's had an office there for 13 years, but I have a ranch in South Texas. I'm connected to South Texas. I think of myself as a South Texan. I love the culture of San Antonio. I think we attract employees that really value quality of life. When we get people from Houston, Dallas, Denver, Oklahoma, City of San Antonio, and they see the hill country right outside our office here, it's got a big appeal to it. It's a large town, but it has a certain culture to it that is just special. I think it really embodies Texas too. So, I just love San Antonio. I said when I moved here in 2005 working for Energy Transfer, "Gosh, if I could figure out a way to make a living to retire in this town, I don't know how to do it." I remember saying that in 2005, and here we are in 2024, thriving in San Antonio. We're able to attract really top talent here. Once you attract them here, we have great schools, great culture that people generally, it's pretty sticky. Generally, people stay. They're not dying to get back to Houston.

00:28:54 KC Yost
I got to confess, I love San Antonio. I love San Antonio. I have a daughter who graduated from UTSA.

00:29:03 Mike Howard
Awesome school.

00:29:04 KC Yost
We actually, as part of her tuition, was paying for the football team that didn't exist at that time. So, roadrunners, here we go.

00:29:14 Mike Howard
They're crushing it now.

00:29:15 KC Yost
Yeah, they are. They are. Then she got her master's at Our Lady of the Lake. So, we have some pretty tight connections with San Antonio, good friends that live over there. Beautiful town.

00:29:27 Mike Howard
We'd love to host you here anytime you're in town. Let us know.

00:29:29 KC Yost
Well, thank you. Thank you. That's very kind. I will make a trip over there. Then my favorite joke of San Antonio, how do you keep from drowning in the San Antonio River?

00:29:40 Mike Howard
It's got to be stand up.

00:29:41 KC Yost
Stand up. That's right, that's right, that's right. For those who don't know, they've got a beautiful river walk in San Antonio, a lot of shops and bars and restaurants along the river walk. It goes for a great distance. They have barges that will actually have dinner trips, cruises, if you will, on the river. It's just a wonderful place, but it's only four feet deep. But that's the San Antonio River going through San Antonio. Okay. All right. I've rambled on. I've really enjoyed this conversation. I sure do appreciate you taking the time, Mike, to visit with us. Is there anything you'd like to shout out to anyone? Anything that I might've missed that you would be interested in telling the viewers, listeners?

00:30:31 Mike Howard
Our company purpose is to deliver positive energy. We believe we work in the greatest industry in the US and definitely the world and how important our industry is that anybody working in our industry should just be proud of what we do. We have a higher purpose and I think we're accomplishing it. It's hard what we do. It's not just writing software. We're doing hard tech. So, I just encourage those that aren't in energy advocacy to get into it, learn more about our industry, attract more young people into our industry because we're here to stay.

00:31:04 KC Yost
Yes. Great, great points. Great. Well, thanks so much for taking the time to visit with us, Mike. I really appreciate it. It's been a great conversation. I've enjoyed it. If anyone would like to learn more about Howard Energy Partners, you can find them on the web at howardenergypartners.com, howardenergypartners.com. So, thanks to all of you for tuning into this episode of The Energy Pipeline Podcast, sponsored by Caterpillar Oil and Gas. Thank you again, Mike, for using Caterpillar drivers. If you have any questions, comments, or ideas for podcast topics, feel free to email me at kc.yost@oggn.com. Also, I want to thank my producer Anastasia Willison-Duff and everyone at the Oil and Gas Global Network for making this podcast possible. Find out more about other OGGN podcasts at oggn.com. This is KC Yost saying goodbye for now. Have a great week. Keep that energy flowing through the pipeline.

00:32:01 Speaker 1
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